You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist

Swell AI Transcript: 146. Maxim Smith.mp3
Maxim Smith:
What people do in college is not actually going to help them in the long run. Most of what they're learning is not things they care about, but if it's all towards a degree, is it going to even give them the financial success that they want? Is it going to give them the life they want? Obviously you want a good outcome from it. I mean, if four years of your time and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars is going into it, you'd hope it's something good. It seems to me like it's largely a huge waste of time and just writing articles I saw just how few students are actually being able to use their degrees for anything to where they can actually make it a career. For the most part, they're completely useless and they can't find the jobs that they want to with them. So even just from a purely financial aspect, it makes zero sense to go that direction.

SPEAKER_02: You must be some kind of therapist.

Stephanie Winn: Today I'm speaking with Maxim Smith. He is a young man acting as a guinea pig for a program designed by his father and a friend which is meant to prepare young men for the future. It's called The Preparation. So it was designed by his father Matthew Smith and Doug Casey. I originally heard Maxim speaking on another podcast almost by chance and was really impressed with Maxim's maturity and insight and really intrigued by this program. So I'm so excited to learn more about the preparation from him today. Maxim, welcome. Thanks for joining me.

Maxim Smith: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Stephanie. I really appreciate it.

Stephanie Winn: So as I mentioned, I heard you on Coffee in a Mic quite by accident. I was just listening to that podcast because I was going to be on it. And so I just was fortunate enough to stumble on your episode of all episodes to check out. And like I said, I was just so impressed with your maturity. And I think that what you and your father and his friend are doing really speaks to a profound need that probably many people in my audience are aware of. A lot of my audience are parents of adolescents and young adults. And we talk about the breakdown in the educational system. We talk about the needs of young people, particularly sometimes the needs of young men and how they are or are not met by sort of the mainstream paths available, higher education systems and things like that. And so I think what you have to offer is so timely. So maybe just to begin, could you explain what the preparation is and how it came about?

Maxim Smith: Yeah, so the preparation really came about in August of 2023. And my dad's friend, Doug Casey, had been sort of developing this idea, or at least speaking about it every once in a while to him, about a, mainly about a book where they could express the ideas of becoming a, what it took to become a Renaissance man. Now that's kind of a, it's a difficult thing to understand what a Renaissance man is, and when my dad told me about it, it didn't, I didn't attach that idea at all. Because, like I said, it's hard to really wrap your mind around what that means. But as my dad started to see that I could, could use some, could use a path to follow, when I got to the point where I was, Um, I had a lot of energy and will to do something, but I was very disappointed because I didn't have a direction. Um, so in August of 2023, my dad presented me with a list of games, activities, and occupations that Doug Casey came up with. And all of these games, activities, and occupations were all centered around what Doug thought can make a Renaissance man, or at least a much more competent man. Meaning that if somebody, if a man were to go through and learn, or at least become competent within several of these skills in all these different areas, that they would be miles ahead of everybody else in terms of just life experience and competency. So it started off with that, and it's developed over time by partially from my dad's own thinking, but also from my active participation with it. And the idea of the preparation is an alternative to college, the military, or a dead-end job. The three main avenues that we're focused on young men, so three main avenues that young men have to choose from. Because I think it's become very clear, especially in recent years, that college is not a worthy path to pursue. And the only argument I've actually heard for college is, well, you should go if you want to become a doctor or a lawyer. But that's, what, 1% or 2% of people? And for the most part, it's just a huge time sink. I mean, four years of some of your most productive years, at least four years down the drain, along with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. And the quality of education has just gotten worse over time. I'm sure you're definitely aware of that. So, um, college is a terrible waste of time. Then you have the military where you're signing your life away for the government, which there are good things that come from the military. Like you have the opportunity to endure both physical and mental strain, which is especially good for young men. And you're doing it alongside people who can be at very least acquaintances, but you can make great friends that way. So there are good things that come with that, but overall you are, if you want it to become a career, you're signing your life away and every aspect of your life is going to be dictated by the government. And then if you want to go into a dead-end job, which there are good things with that as well, there is life experience, you get to make some cash, But, again, your life is very limited and we all have an extremely finite amount of time and we have to use it well. So, as an alternative to those three main avenues, the preparation is about gaining as many skills as you can within the span of four years, which would be the normal length of college for most people. and gaining real experiences to make some cash along the way, build a lot of skills, create a network of friends doing all these things, and eventually come out of it as a highly capable and highly competent individual who, no matter where they are or what they're doing, can and will succeed. So that is the the main spiel for the program. And I guess throughout that time, throughout the little over a year that I've been in it, I started doing nothing every day. You know, just the typical. teenage boy stuff, playing video games, doing nothing else. And then quickly I picked up a lot of different things and I started working a few menial jobs to make some cash to support, financially support my pursuits, which started off with Brazilian jiu-jitsu and going to EMT school. And those two things, primarily EMT school, opened up a lot of opportunity for me. I got the chance to go to a rope rescue course in South Dakota, and then last summer I worked as an EMT on wildfires. I also was apprenticed to an Uruguayan gaucho, which is essentially a cowboy here in Uruguay for a short period, and I learned how to inspect and treat cattle, fix fences, drive tractors. I also improved my horsemanship. And then going back to the States, I improved my writing quite a lot just by posting on Substack, posting my weekly updates that I do to hold myself accountable. I also got the opportunity to meet some very impressive older men. One of whom showed me how to pack mules and horses, just how to stow cargo on them and go out into the back country. So I improved my horsemanship through him and learned some, some basic skills regarding packing. Then I became a certified type 2 firefighter, which is a wildland firefighter, and that's what allowed me to work on wildfires. And I did quite a few other things in between those bigger events, but all of that stemmed from my father introducing me to the Doug's list of games, activities, and occupations. And, um, that's where the preparation started. It started in, um, my, like I said, my active participation in it, uh, working as a Guinea pig has allowed it to develop more over time. So, yeah.

Stephanie Winn: That all sounds so much more interesting and fulfilling and experiential than what someone your exact age would have done in college as like the default path. I mean, you said this began in August 2023. Right now we're recording in January 2025. So it's not even quite been a year and a half yet. And you've gotten all of these experiences and skills In a holistic way, these are things where you're using your hands, your body, your senses, and your mind together. And you have to interact with people and the elements. So it feels like a really grounded, rooted, practical education. And like you're using skills, well, you're learning skills that are essential for protecting life and transferable to other situations that you might find yourself in. Like you said, you know, starting with EMT school, then working as an EMT in wildfires, then learning another type of firefighting, you know, these things kind of build on each other. The physical skills you gain in jujitsu are going to make you stronger. So these are all just so much more connected and integrated than what's happening on the physical and experiential level of someone who's going to class, which is that you're living in an apartment. God knows if you're cooking and cleaning or if you're just going to the cafeteria. You know, are you learning to even take care of yourself in a basic way, or are you just, you know, going to class and regurgitating knowledge? That feels so disconnected compared to what you're doing.

Maxim Smith: Yeah, well, I mean, recently we're trying to develop a book for the preparation so that we can really give people a very specific guide, at least as specific as we can get, because the thing about the preparation, it's all based around the individual. There is no institution to say, you're going to do this at this time, at this place. It's all, all effort must come from you. So, but as we're trying to work on this book, we're looking at, we're comparing the amount of hours that someone in college takes towards earning their degree versus, I mean, for the preparation, our minimum baseline would be 40 hours of focused effort towards, whatever skills you're learning each week. So over a year, that's 1920 hours versus as a college student, it's going to be about, I think, 28 hours a week. I think the minimum full-time credit hours for a student is 15. So over 30 weeks, that's, I think, around 840 hours. So just based upon that basis alone, you can be miles ahead of other people within just one year, but you're also not gaining any real life practical skills that are going to aid you. even in ways that you couldn't have imagined. Like you said, all these different skills connect to each other in strange ways. And once you go into a skill trying to learn it as a complete ignorant fool, you come out of it and you realize, oh, this connects to that and that connects to this. It all comes together in strange ways. But that can only come about through real life experience and not sitting down in the classroom taking classes half of which or more are not things you actually care about and are not going to aid you towards your future. So yeah.

Stephanie Winn: Let me sort of put it this way too, even for people who are very drawn to doing intellectual work or, you know, working in academia, Apparently, there is good evidence that human beings can really only do 3-4 hours a day of intensive mental labor. So, this feels intuitively right to me. I also recently read about it in Oliver Berkman's latest book, Meditations for Mortals. where there seems to be a really consistent pattern looking at the biographies going back a ways of some of the most intelligent and prolific people. Some of our greatest inventors and writers, if you look at how they lived their daily lives, they only spent three to four hours a day intensely concentrating on that intellectual pursuit. And the rest of the time they spent walking, gardening, cooking, being in their bodies, being in their environments, being around other people. you know, even a college student who is passionate about learning things of an intellectual nature is still going to need those other skills. And conversely, looking at you as someone who's mostly spending your time learning physical skills, you also are advancing your writing skills. You are a more impressive speaker than a lot of young people your age who are required to give presentations in college. So, I think that having a blend of the life of the mind and those real-world embodied skills is probably the best way to optimize for most people.

Maxim Smith: And it's much more fulfilling. I mean, I focus on more physical skills because I need to move and get out. Do things I'd say I'd say you're probably right about the three to four hours of intense mental focus being the maximum limit there is because that's probably about as long as I can focus on some mental effort, but There's also the the fact that I The what people do in college is not actually going to help them in the long run. I mean, like I said, most of what they're learning is not things they care about, but if it's all towards a degree, is the degree guaranteed to actually give them a, I mean, it's usually a financial focus, but is it going to even give them the financial success that they want? Is it going to give them the life they want? I think that's the, that's a bigger portion of it. Just looking at it from the college perspective, because obviously you want a good outcome from it. I mean, if four years of your time and tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars is going into it. you'd hope it's something good, but I just, it seems to me like it's largely a huge waste of time. And just writing articles, mainly at the beginning of last year, I saw just how few students are actually being able to use their degrees for anything to where they can actually make it a career. For the most part, they're completely useless and they can't find the jobs that they want to with them. So even just from a purely financial aspect, it makes zero sense to go that direction, I think.

Stephanie Winn: Well, and I'm smiling because my mind is going in a few different directions. I mean, for one, you already sound more mature about finances than your peers who are in college and not thinking about money, just expecting their parents or the system to pay for things for them. So I'm wondering, and this is somewhere we can potentially go, like what in the preparation has helped you have a sound mindset about money? But I'm also thinking When it comes to your your comments about college that you know a lot of young people because I I consult a lot with the parents of college-age kids and a lot of them have anti-capitalist views and the college experience is really kind of being used to reinforce activism rather than skills that are useful in the job market. So it feels like, in some ways, like they're not even trying to make college relevant to employment. And then another factor that comes to mind, too, is just how quickly the job landscape is always changing with technology and AI and things like that. So I mean, I guess I wonder maybe bringing it back to what you're doing in the preparation. What do you think about sort of the future of what kind of skills are going to be employable? What kind of skills are going to be valuable? How do you as a 19-year-old, is that right? Yes. How do you as a 19-year-old young man who's got kind of a, you know, you have your You have a grounded perspective on life. You seem to know what you're doing, where you're going. Looking out at the landscape, what seems employable? What seems precarious? How do you make decisions about what kind of skills might be useful to you in the future when the future looks so uncertain?

Maxim Smith: I think that the best times in the world, especially for young men seeking to live fulfilling lives, have been highly uncertain times. The one who, the guy who always comes to mind, the man who always comes to mind for me is Louis L'Amour, who was a, do you know Louis L'Amour?

Stephanie Winn: No.

Maxim Smith: He was a very famous Western author who wrote hundreds of books. I think I have probably 18 of his books on the bookshelf back there. But he lived a very interesting life growing up in the Great Depression. He left home around 14 or 15 years old and he worked various odd jobs. I think he skinned cattle for a while. He was an elephant handler. He was the caretaker of a mine. And during this time he was also a seaman as well. During this time he was hoboing around the country, he was getting on trains and just looking for work. And because of that he had so many interesting experiences which didn't relate to each other in any obvious way and definitely would not have provided a a good foundation, at least according to most people, for a long lasting career, especially during the Great Depression where maybe you only had a job for a few days. But all of the stories he accumulated and all the different things he was able to do during that time allowed him to become the fantastic writer he would be later in his life, I think in his 40s. So many, many years of seemingly random things. And then he went off to World War II as well in that time period. But things that did not connect to each other at all and did not present a Because for most people, it's always based around finances, did not present the opportunity for a good financial future. They led in a very good direction. So while things are uncertain now, I can't say what the most needed skills are going to be like in the future. I think it's, maybe it's not impossible to say, but I have no idea. But I think for any person who dedicates four years of their life at least to gaining a substantial amount of skills and putting all of their effort into doing so within that time, I think that the skills that they learn will only compound and lead to very interesting opportunities. The opportunity I had to work on wildfires as an EMT came out of the blue, out of nowhere. I was just finishing up with the EMT school when I got an email, or I guess my dad got an email, from a guy saying that he would offer me a job to work on the wildfires as an EMT, that came out of nowhere. But that was all because he saw that I was trying to gain more skills and do interesting things and putting a lot of effort into doing all these things. And he wanted to give me that opportunity, which not only allowed me to gain some interesting skills and more social skills as well, being around people for days on end, doing eating with them, sleeping nearby them, just Every day was around people spending hours upon hours sitting in an ambulance or whatever. Social skills, lots of different types of skills, navigational skills. I was also able to bring in a fair amount of cash. I mean, we are paid on a hourly rate, but it came out to $600 a day. And the normal contract for how long you're on a wildfire is 14 days. So $600 for 14 days. Ash did on fires for 41 days last year. That's a fair amount. And that came out of blue. That was an opportunity that came out of nowhere. And I think as people do more things and since put sincere effort into doing these things. It doesn't have to be just going to EMT school. Within the preparation, we think that you should try to diversify as much as possible while gaining a fairly solid foundation in all the things you delve into. It can be anything, but as soon as you put yourself out there as someone who really tries in life, opportunities come out of the blue and set you up for the future in ways that are entirely unexpected.

Stephanie Winn: That was really well put. I mean, it seems like what you're doing builds transferable and versatile skills. You're developing adaptability, character, social skills, a work ethic. physical strength, mental strength, communication skills, and the sense of identity as someone who is a good learner, someone who can, again, adapt and pick up on what needs to be picked up on to do what comes your way. And I think that that You know, we could call that agility. And I think agility is almost like a state of peak fitness, physically and mentally, because it means that you're most able to do whatever needs to be done.

Maxim Smith: Right. Exactly. I'm curious, what do people, what do the people you talk to who have their kids in college, or maybe if some of them are in college, What do they typically say about it nowadays? I mean, what is their synopsis of college? Is it a thing that they view as worthwhile or how is it negatively impacted?

Stephanie Winn: Well, if they're coming to me, it's because they're worried that their kid is on a path of medical self-destruction. That's why they're consulting with me, because of gender identity issues. So, you know, so I'm getting that particular perspective for many of the parents I consult with. They have a personal attachment to their kids going to college because of what it means to them. And these parents are in their 40s or 50s or 60s and some of them are very well educated and some of them had very fond memories of their own education or would not be able to have the incredibly meaningful and stable career that they have were it not for that education. And so because of what higher education means to them, it's really important to them that their kids go to college. And sometimes that's a good thing. And sometimes it gets in their way of seeing what the college experience is turning out to be for their son or daughter. You know, whether the kid is going with their eyes wide open, with an intention to get something useful out of it, or whether they're going to blow their parents' cash, disrespect their parents' wishes behind their backs, and become politically radicalized. There's the politically radical climate on campuses, there's the identity politics and activism, there's the social… I think socially it's like either their kids are sort of hanging out with peers that the parents aren't so happy about or maybe not getting much social experience because everyone's on their phones and on social media rather than building those real-life, you know, real-time social skills. And yeah, I mean, out of the families I consult with, there are a few where it seems like their kid has a particular intention out of their college education that the parents really want to support and that it makes sense to support. But even then, if that kid is on a path of medical self-destruction, if they're considering taking cross-sex hormones, for example, like males who take cross-sex hormones are literally shrinking their brains. So it can feel like a ticking time bomb. I talk to parents of boys your age who are taking estrogen while pursuing a degree in something very complicated and something very mentally demanding. And one of the things I empathize with them about is like, yeah, you can try to say that you're proud of him now for having that particular goal, but if he is destroying his brain cells, destroying his gray matter in his brain, you know, is he really going to be able to pursue that meaningful career path or is he creating a disability and he's going to be dependent on you and then you're going to have to pay off those student loans for nothing. So given my unique vantage point, my unique specialty, I'm sure I'm not getting the full picture, but that's some of what I see.

Maxim Smith: Interesting. I mean, because I haven't been to college, I've been on some colleges and I've seen a different aspect of it. I've seen the college experience aspect of it, which is just drinking and drugs and parties. But I have I did hear from someone, it must have been last year, heard a story about a girl who was very intelligent and she was very traditionally elegant and beautiful, and then she went off to college. She ended up getting her breasts cut off and I don't know if she said she was non-binary or whatever, but it was a huge, huge, it's almost like someone dying, really. It's a terrible thing. And that is a small aspect of college that doesn't affect everyone, but it is a big problem. And I noticed these things even in middle school, in high school. I actually went to high school for a three month period. It was during COVID. And then my middle school. Primarily in eighth grade, the last year I was there, it was all about politics. It was all political stuff. They were showing us teen Vogue videos about, uh, what was it? Cultural appropriation for Halloween costumes and things like that. I mean, it's, it's wild. The entire education system from K through 12 to college is pretty screwed up.

Stephanie Winn: Yeah, speaking of cultural appropriation, at my younger stepchild's elementary school, they're not allowed to dress up for Halloween anymore because it might offend the one or two people on campus who don't celebrate Halloween. Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, there's all kinds of nonsense being taught in the schools, and you know that well because you were coming of age. So, and just to clarify for our listeners, so you are originally from Illinois, and then you lived some in Colorado, and now your whole family is on a ranch in Uruguay. So what was the timeline of when you said you were being exposed to those ideas in middle school? Was that Illinois or Colorado?

Maxim Smith: That was Colorado. One of those schools was a private school and the other, the high school was a public school. They, yeah, it was cultural appropriation, white privilege was a big one, which was all under the the guys of anti-bullying stuff, which was all a lie. They had the anti-defamation league come to our school, actually, our middle school. And they sat us down in a big circle. And I remember the first thing they had us do was, you know, go around the circle. They said, tell us your name, something you like, and your pronouns. That was the first thing, first thing. And this was supposed to be an anti-bullying event thing, which is… all, that's a entirely different topic, but they get around to me and I said, what do you think? What do you think my pronouns are? I mean, I hope it's obvious enough, but I mean, it was, there was wild stuff there. In high school for that three month time timeframe, my math teacher was talking about her favorite politicians first thing in the morning for no reason. Science class was about pronouns. Um, at least in the beginning. And the English class was, I believe, based around feminist books. Um, either that or slavery stuff. I don't remember exactly, but yeah, that was all during the time we were in Colorado and I went to the high school there for three months in 2020. And then we moved here in October of 2021.

Stephanie Winn: So on that note, a comment and a question. With regard to how this nonsense curriculum got introduced as being in the name of anti-bullying, I do have an episode for listeners on that topic. It's my episode with my friend Anita Bartholomew. So let's kind of flag that if you want more insight on that topic. Anita is writing a book on indoctrination in K-12. And then my question for you, Maxim, is What were your thoughts as a middle schooler and high schooler being introduced to these ideas? And did you talk to your parents at home about what you were being taught at school? And if so, how did your parents react?

Maxim Smith: I didn't have the vocabulary to express that I thought it was wrong. And I couldn't, and I felt that it was wrong. Something was off about it because it was all, it was all lies. All of it. And it was all degrading as well for everyone. But I didn't have the vocabulary to express why I was bad or even because I didn't have the vocabulary to think about why I thought it was bad in the first place. But I did end up telling my dad about it in 8th grade at that middle school. And we got that specific class, which was only for 8th graders, shut down for the rest of the year while I was there. Of course, as soon as I leave, it comes right back and my sister had to deal with it. But, um, yeah, we did end up getting it shut down for a little bit. And it was, it was interesting because I had to sit down in a room with my principal with, and the, um, was it middle school director, I think, or eighth grade director, whatever it was, uh, in this room with my father as well. And. I couldn't explain why I thought it was a bad thing, but just from what my dad was hearing, he thought it was crazy. And actually later on into the year, I guess this was the second semester after we got that class shut down, crazy things happened where all of a sudden, and all of this comes from that type of thinking, the cultural Marxist frame of thought, where all of a sudden for On the basis of teenage boys, middle school boys acting like middle school boys, several of us got accused by teachers of sexual assault and sexual harassment of eighth grade girls. None of this happened, but they were accusing us, teachers were accusing us of this. And so I told my dad about that, and then he got extremely mad. about it and when it was terribly convenient timing for the middle school because as soon as my dad sent an email or called them, whatever he did, they never picked up and then COVID came and so nothing could be done about it. But yeah, we tried to stop that.

Stephanie Winn: Many of you listening to this show are concerned about an adolescent or young adult you care about who's caught up in the gender insanity and therefore at risk of medical self-destruction. I developed ROGD Repair as a resource for parents just like you. It's a self-paced online course and community that will teach you the psychology concept and communication tools the families I've consulted with have found most helpful in understanding and getting through to their children, even when they're adults. Visit ROGDRepair.com to learn more about the program and use promo code SUMTHERAPIST2025 at checkout to take 50% off your first month. That's ROGDRepair.com. So when you sit here now as a 19-year-old young man saying college is useless, were these kind of formative experiences that maybe contributed to your sense that, yeah, sometimes the educational system is full of BS, full of teachers' political opinions and social so-called justice and

Maxim Smith: Yeah, I think I just happened to stumble into a weird niche, I guess, form of content at the time. Um, or when I was in middle school, like Steven Crowder, uh, going to universities and doing his, forget what his, uh, debating like slogan or motto was but I would watch those and But that started even though I don't necessarily like that stuff anymore that started to get the gears turning Sort of make me think that college wasn't worth it I did have a skewed view of college because I thought, oh, that's all that college is, is social justice, Marxist stuff, which it's not all that, but certainly some of it is. So it started there, but the experiences from middle school and the high school that I went to helped reinforce those ideas that maybe education, institutionalized education as a whole is not worth it. And then I started reading John Taylor Gatto, who was a public school teacher in New York, New York City for 30 years. And he wrote several books about how, basically, just to summarize it, about how school as an institution completely destroys kids. And he would go out of his way, he was a teacher up through the 90s, He would go out of his way to try to uneducate kids, at least away from the institutionalized form of education. He would give kids assignments out in the real world. He would say, okay, I want you to go this place. I want you to ask if you can do this form of work for free or for this amount of money, this amount of cash, and I want you to tell me what you learned from that. So he was, he was realizing, and I think he was way ahead of his time, that institutionalized education narrows kids and puts them in a, in a box where they're not able to, I mean, it sounds a little silly, but be who they actually are and pursue the things they actually want to pursue. If everyone gets treated like a brick in the wall, what do you expect is going to happen? The same thing is with college, slightly different because you have a bit more dominion over the classes you get to choose. I mean, you have the choice of going there in the first place, your parents aren't going to be scolded by other parents for not sending you to school, or maybe even prosecuted for letting you not go to school. Um, so you do have choice, the choice of going to college in the first place, but, and choosing some of your classes, choosing your major, but overall, it's just about the same.

Stephanie Winn: As you were speaking, this might seem a little tangential, but one thing that was coming to mind is how you were talking about how you have so much energy and you need to use your body. And so that's part of why you do physical labor. And I was thinking, yeah, that makes sense here. You're a healthy 19 year old boy. And I, you know, I have 10 and 12 year old stepsons and one of them is just, he's a little energizer bunny. Like he always has to be moving. And I hope that he gets to experience that not in a disruptive way, but I hope that he gets to be as athletic, you know, after puberty as he currently is before puberty. I hope he always has this much energy. The energy of young men is an incredible force if channeled properly, but I think you and I would agree that the educational systems are kind of boy-unfriendly in that they don't support boys' energy levels, their need for competition, and the way that boys learn and process. And to circle back to your question for me earlier about what are parents noticing about their kids' college experiences, one thing that's come up in my conversations with several families now is that, and this isn't just about boys, it's about boys and girls, but these young men and women, oftentimes in college, some of them never have a peak experience of physical vitality. And that could take many forms, but I think it's so important to have these formative experiences in young adulthood after your body has gone through puberty, once you've, you know, achieved your, you know, sexually immature adult bodily form. to have the experiences in that adult body of, Wow, my body can do this, whatever it is, whether it's a flip off a diving board, or the splits, or running at 10 miles an hour, or, you know, whatever it is. And, um, You know, I often kind of, and in fact, I think it's one of, if it's not one of the prompts in my course for parents, it should be. Sometimes I question people like, what experiences has your child ever had or what have they seen someone else do that's made them think, I really want to be able to do that? Right? Is it a parkour move or a cartwheel? Or because having that experience of, wow, I'm doing it, I'm skiing down a steep slope or whatever, is it really anchors in the body that felt sense? of why being healthy and strong is worth it. And when you have at least one physical activity that you really love doing, then you will stay fit in order to keep doing that thing that you love. And that thing you love will keep you fit. And it is so much more motivating to do whatever, strength training, whatever you have to do in order to be able to do that thing that you love. And so I'm glad that you can give an example of, you know, a healthy, vital young man with all that life force doing things constructively with that life force and getting that grounded experience of how good it feels to be strong. And I'm really like mourning for these families. who have young people who never had a period of being healthy and strong. So for some of these young people, it's that they had a chronic illness in young adulthood. For some, it's depression and a vicious cycle of behavior reinforcing that depression, behavior and beliefs all working together to prevent them from achieving their peak form. And then for some, you know, as we talked about the gender ideology, once they start taking drugs, their physical health is downhill from there. But when I think about, you know, how do we incentivize young people to see the benefits of having a healthy form, for some, one of the barriers is that they've actually never had that feeling in their bodies. So sad, and it's just so vital, I think, to have those experiences. And so I just, I know we have parents listening to this, and I really want you to think about, you know, is there anything your kid has ever done or ever seen anyone else do that was exciting, that required strength and vitality in order to be able to do that? Just some thoughts that I was feeling moved to share.

Maxim Smith: Yeah, no, I mean, like you were saying earlier, it's, you need to be, well-rounded in your physical and mental capabilities. And for young men, the physical aspect of things, the desire to get out in the world and do physical things that could be sailing that could be working as an EMT, it could be becoming a pilot to private pilot or maybe commercial pilot. Those physical things. I mean, last year I hiked was three or four 14ers, 14,000 foot mountains. And those were moments of extreme difficulty, especially because I was being kind of dumb and probably had a 30 or 35 pound pack for no reason each time. But those moments were very important moments because they caused me to push beyond a certain more mental boundary and do something I never never done before so yes I completely agree with your your idea about the physical aspect of things as well just being able to be healthy and I think all of that is much more easily done when you're not confined to a specific setting or place during the years where you should have the most energy. It's definitely much easier to be healthy if you are pursuing skills and going, moving around to try to find where you can learn these skills and at the same time having secondary focuses based around your own fitness. And hiking the 14ers was just one of my secondary focuses for a few weeks. So for sure, I completely agree with you.

Stephanie Winn: So I've been eager to get back to the question of what else is on the list. So both the list that your dad and his friend came up with, as well as your personal list, because so far what you've named is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, EMT school, rope rescue course, wildfire EMT work, apprenticing to a cowboy, ranching, logging, horses, and wildland firefighting. And in the process, we talked about your physical and mental skills. You've become more financially grounded. You've got social skills, adaptability, character, work ethic, endurance. So, and you're just in year two, right, of a four-year program that's sort of self-directed to become, as you said, a Renaissance man. So I'm curious, what other skills do you want to gain and what else is on the list of options just in general, as well as the options that you're thinking of pursuing?

Maxim Smith: So in the book we're developing now, we are going to have a section where we talk about these things that we're calling cycles. A cycle being a quarter, so three months. And each cycle there's Different focuses. There's the anchor course, which is the main pursuit. There's academic courses that you'll be taking. Games and activities to pursue, which are skills as well. And a few other things like a few hours of working, and that could be working a menial job. It could be doing wildland fires or anything, any type of work. But we have a list of 16 main things right now, which would account for four years of time. And to name a few, EMT is on that list, taking a 16 day sailing course in Chile is on that list. becoming a pilot, which we recommend doing it in Alaska because at least the places I found there are cheaper. There's also a place called the Shelter Institute, which I believe is in Maine. And you can go there and learn how to, you can either build a timber frame structure Or you can learn how to design a house over the course of two weeks. And the design, I guess, is designing a timber frame, but that includes electrical and plumbing as well. We also have becoming a heavy equipment operator. Um, lots of different skills on that list. And I'd say for this next year, since I'm starting off on a, uh, fresh slate this, this, this year, um, the skills I'm going to be pursuing are sailing. I will be going down to Chile on the 1st of next month to take that 16 day course, uh, near the Cape Horn, the very tip of Chile. I also, my current plan is to try to become a private pilot before the summer. Um, cause hopefully I can go back and work as an EMT on wildfires again, just to make some extra, extra cash to fund myself, to do more, do more things, learn more skills. And then the final thing for this year would be going to the Shelter Institute and taking their two-week design course there. That's just a vague list of things I'd like to get done. Things change all the time, especially in the preparation. Opportunities come up out of nowhere and sometimes things don't work out and other things do. But beyond that, I really have no idea of what the next few years are going to look like.

Stephanie Winn: That's so impressive to imagine a young man at the same age as his peers who are graduating from college having the skills to sail a boat, fly a plane, build a house, run a tractor, mend a fence, administer first aid, and put out a fire.

Maxim Smith: Well, that's why we recommend the preparation above anything else. I mean, just with the, even if you did one year of focused effort, complete all out. foot on the gas nonstop, you are going to be miles ahead of everybody else, miles ahead. And even in an academic sense, I mean, the academic portion has not been a huge focus for me. At least it wasn't within the first year. Now it is. And I wish it was more of a focus in the first year. But as we're developing the program, and hopefully the book will be done fairly soon, maybe within the next couple months, we'll have a very solid plan, or at least a template people can build off of to design their own courses as well, that we can present to people and go, if you do this, you're going to be miles ahead of everybody else. Here's how you can do it. Here's how much money it's going to cost, how much time it's going to take you. So, yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Winn: So it seems like, okay, so you're living in Uruguay and you're going to do a course in Chile. So can I presume that you speak Spanish?

Maxim Smith: I understand a little bit Spanish. I'm not a great Spanish speaker, but I can, I can get by. Yeah.

Stephanie Winn: Would you say that acquiring a language is on the list?

Maxim Smith: Oh, for sure. Yeah, that was actually one of the activity-based skills that was on Doug Casey's original list, I think, just to remember a few things off the top of my head. It was learning a second language, learning the guitar, piano, martial arts, sailing, becoming a private pilot, marketing, sales. What else was on there? Speaking, I guess that would be lecturing maybe. The trades, some of those skills. But the problem with the trades is that you basically can't learn or get a solid foundation of trades-based skills in the U.S. unless you go to a community college for two years. So that's a difficult one to do.

Stephanie Winn: Which trades are you referring to?

Maxim Smith: Welding, electrical work, plumbing, carpentry, mainly those. Just because I've looked into them myself because I want to learn some of those things, but everything I've seen, at least to get a very solid foundation on it, you have to go through a community college.

Stephanie Winn: I see. Yeah. What about domestic skills, cooking?

Maxim Smith: Actually, that was something I forgot. One of the 16 cycles, one of them is going to a cooking school in Florence, actually. They have one month, three month, and I think one year cooking classes. So that's definitely on the list. Cooking is absolutely one of the things on the list. I forgot about that.

Stephanie Winn: So the book and the list contain not only general skills to learn, but specific places to learn them. I mean, this sailing school in Chile, cooking school in Florence. Was there any particular rhyme or reason to choosing these particular places to learn these skills?

Maxim Smith: The 16 day sailing course was recommended by a friend of my father's who has been a sailor for a long time and reveres the guy, the captain who runs the sailing course. So that was a recommendation from him. But most of the other courses that I, that we have are courses that I have found through trying to find more things that I can do over time or within this four-year time frame and just going through and seeing out of a long list of piloting courses or cooking courses, seeing which ones were the best and I think If I were to go anywhere to learn cooking, I'd definitely go to Florence. Piloting is a big thing in Alaska, so that's the place to go. So it was mainly just through my own searching of these things, mainly just for my own benefit. All right, so you had learning an instrument on the list and… Yeah, learning instruments, martial arts, learning a second language, lots of different things on that list. I can send it to you after this. I'll send you that list to make it a lot easier for you. And I don't remember all the things on there. And then I can also send you a list of all the major accomplishments over the past year within the preparation, just so people can see some more of the things that I didn't mention. But yeah, a long list of things to just make a more competent individual. Yeah.

Stephanie Winn: And when it comes to outdoor skills, some of the things you mentioned touch on that. So of course, firefighting is an outdoor skill. Ranching, dealing with cattle and horses, these are outdoor skills. I think there are a lot of other outdoor skills and something's come up a lot lately for the people I consult with is wanting to know, you know, healthy environments that they can send their adolescents or young adults to. To learn outdoor skills and also to, you know, be in community, get off the internet, be closer to the earth, and have that sort of therapeutic aspect to a closer relationship with the wilderness, are there any particular outdoor or wilderness skill schools that you and your dad and his friend have come across that you would recommend?

Maxim Smith: Absolutely. Um, I guess just as a basic certification, I think everyone should get a, um, Oh, what is it called? A, uh, wilderness first aid certification, just as a certification, get, um, and do something out, out in the wild, but there's Boulder outdoor survival school. is a good place to go to. Their courses are more expensive, but you're getting the real deal. You're going to learn the skills, you're going to become competent. I believe, not that most people are going to choose this, but I believe their longest course is somewhere between, maybe somewhere around 28 days. So you can spend a long time out in the wild and I mean, you're working with a top tier group of people for that, that skill out there. We met one of the guys, actually, his name is Dave, Dave something, but he's this older, older gentleman who we actually went to California with, we went to Catalina Island, which is off the coast of California, and we did a survival program with him for a few days. And he was, again, top tier, fantastic. So Boulder Outdoor Survival School and California Survival School, I think are some of the some of the best ones to go to. But there's probably, there's tons of survival schools people can find, some that are definitely gonna be much more close to them. I think Boulder Outdoor Survival School's in Utah, and then the other one's obviously in California. So, but those are, those are the places to go. Absolutely.

Stephanie Winn: When you were talking about Catalina Island, it made me think, I was wondering if one of the things on your list is SCUBA certification.

Maxim Smith: Yeah, I actually got my scooter certification in November and that's something that I, uh, I don't enjoy, but I do recommend people do as well. Um, I, I took the long route of getting it and ended up doing, um, my open water dives in both Texas and my final one down here in Uruguay. Two not great places to dive, but I do recommend people get a open water certification at least. It's a good skill. And it's another one of those things that I think appeals to young men. It's just another, it is a manly skill for sure. It can be very fun as well.

Stephanie Winn: What about auto maintenance or bicycle repair?

Maxim Smith: Um, I've done a lot of research into things like that too, because I like, I don't want to do most things online. I want to go to these places and actually get in-person instruction. There's not too many places that you can go to, to learn. Um, just basic mechanic skills without, I guess, going into a career or into a very long-term school. And one of the things with the preparation is you want to do things within a three month timeframe. You want to get one skill crunched into a three-month time frame and get it solid foundation within that period of time. And really try not to go above that time frame because then you're limiting your ability and your time to learn other skills. I haven't found many places to do that. There's got to be some, because I know my girlfriend, when she was in Texas, she ended up taking mechanic class at some place there. I don't remember what it was called, but there's got to be some around. I just haven't found them.

Stephanie Winn: Is your girlfriend doing something similar to what you're doing?

Maxim Smith: Um, not exactly, but she's learned quite a lot of interesting and good skills within the past year. I wouldn't say she's doing the preparation. She's doing her own, she's going along her own path and doing lots of academic study on financial history and how to manage finances. history in general, art history, and then also she did take those mechanic classes, some woodworking classes, so she's learned a lot more things than I think most people know at her age as well, or our age, especially as a young woman. So she's along her own path, a little different, but similar in some ways, yeah.

Stephanie Winn: Yeah, well, I know this isn't your area of expertise, but between, you know, taking inspiration from what your girlfriend has gotten up to and the conversations that you've had with your dad and his friend, you know, what have you guys touched on in terms of If a young woman were to want to do a more female-appropriate version of the preparation, not to say that young women can't do all the same things, but sexual dimorphism is real. Men and women have different brains as well as different bodies. Study after study have found that in more egalitarian societies where women are free to pursue what they want, they tend to gravitate towards more stereotypically feminine jobs and activities. So that being said, has anything come up in your conversations about, you know, what a female version of this might look like?

Maxim Smith: Well, it's pretty difficult. Because for the, um, for the book and for the, for everyone who's designing the preparation, which is, um, Doug Casey, my, my father and myself, all men, it's, we don't have, we don't have the right perspective and we can never have the right perspective to give a good answer as to what that would be. I'm sure that it's, it'll be very likely that a, female-based version of the preparation or something like it will come out of this, the main original preparation. Once it becomes, once it catches on, becomes more popular, especially after the book is released. And a, I guess, yeah, just once it becomes more implanted into the minds of much more people, many more people, and more young men start pursuing it, I think then we can ask that question and… Maybe your mom and sister will start their own branch. Yeah, maybe we would have to, I mean, I would, I think you would be better to consult older women, older, wiser women for what that would look like. And I think you'd be, I think you would end up looking very different from the original form of the preparation. I have no idea though, but I'd like that to become a reality in the future. It'd be interesting.

Stephanie Winn: I'm excited to have that conversation, politically incorrect, as it might be to say that, you know, maybe girls are learning knitting while their boyfriends are out trained to be EMTs. You know, I'm very interested in that conversation, whether your sister and mom want to get in touch with me after this interview, or whether a listener wants to talk about what that might look like. Because while current academic environments are more female-friendly than male-friendly in many ways. College does feel increasingly like a waste of money to many families. So I'm really grateful to have met you and come across your work and would love to chat with your dad and his friend at some point and would love to find out where you're at a few years from now and all the skills and things that you've learned, and I'm really excited to see this project take off. Is there any estimation on when the book will be ready?

Maxim Smith: We're making good headway at the moment. We've been doing so for the past month, although we've been working on it for maybe a year now. I would guess that, I don't know about when it would be published, but I think it would be completed within the next month, month and a half. So relatively soon. Very cool. We'll see.

Stephanie Winn: Well, thank you so much for sharing your time and knowledge with us today. And this is where you can tell people where they can find you.

Maxim Smith: Yeah, um, you can go to subsec and I believe it's called, you can just look up the preparation and I think my page will come up. Um, and that's about it. I don't really have any other places where people can find me, but yeah, thank you for having me, Stephanie. And I, I really appreciate it. It was great talking to you. It's been fantastic. So thank you.

Stephanie Winn: It's been a pleasure. Thank you for joining me, Maxim. Thank you for listening to You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist. If you enjoyed this episode, kindly take a moment to rate, review, share, or comment on it using your platform of choice. And of course, please remember, podcasts are not therapy, and I'm not your therapist. Special thanks to Joey Pecoraro for this awesome theme song, Half Awake, and to Pods by Nick for production. For help navigating the impact of the gender craze on your family, be sure to check out my program for parents, ROGD Repair. Any resource you heard mentioned on this show, plus how to get in touch with me, can all be found in the notes and links below. Rain or shine, I hope you will step outside to breathe the air today. In the words of Max Ehrman, with all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.