You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist

[00:00:00] SKOT: You must be some kind of therapist.[00:00:05]

[00:00:07] Stephanie: For this week's episode, I am borrowing [00:00:10] a conversation I had with Denison Joyce on his show through the Looking [00:00:15] Glass, originally on WIOX radio. Denison [00:00:20] interviewed me about my program for parents, ROGD repair and the one-on-one work I do. He asked [00:00:25] great questions and was a wonderful host. This conversation aired almost a year [00:00:30] ago, and I've kept my copy of it on the back burner to share again on my [00:00:35] podcast someday, and I'm bringing it to you today because we had a spot to [00:00:40] fill.

[00:00:40] Stephanie: So hope you enjoy my conversation with Dennis and Joyce, in which I share [00:00:45] about my work.

[00:00:46] Dennison: You're working with ROGD Repair. [00:00:50] Um, maybe you can explain what that is and what the trifecta of [00:00:55] social, uh, contagion is. That it's really hitting our use and certainly, I, I [00:01:00] saw that in the DSM five 13 or 14 out of a hundred [00:01:05] thousand children.

[00:01:05] Dennison: I think that was written in 2013. Uh, we're we're [00:01:10] considered to be trans and now it's like, I think in Massachusetts 500. [00:01:15] Out of a hundred thousand. So huge increase. And [00:01:20] um, when these sort of epidemics happen in our health world, [00:01:25] usually invokes an investigation. And it doesn't seem like there's an investigation now.

[00:01:28] Dennison: It just seems like [00:01:30] we know the problem, fast track, gender affirming care. So maybe you can talk [00:01:35] about your work and encapsulate these factors for us.

[00:01:39] Stephanie: [00:01:40] Oh, sure. Well, thank you for asking. And uh, you mentioned that the DSM five was [00:01:45] released in 2013, and that's also the year that I [00:01:50] graduated from my Master's in counseling program.

[00:01:52] Stephanie: So I have had [00:01:55] the. Bizarre privilege of, uh, growing my career as a [00:02:00] therapist during that sort of decade of exponential growth in the [00:02:05] number of young people identifying as trans, non-binary, or some other made [00:02:10] up so-called gender identity. And I was one of these young progressive [00:02:15] therapists that was taught to affirm those identities.

[00:02:18] Stephanie: And as a result, [00:02:20] I got to witness up close and personal. So many of the [00:02:25] underlying issues that now we talk about at the gender critical community, [00:02:30] the autism, the endocrine disorders, like polycystic ovarian syndrome, the [00:02:35] history of sexual trauma and exposure to pornography, online grooming, and [00:02:40] all of these issues and.

[00:02:44] Stephanie: It wasn't until [00:02:45] I learned about Detransition for the first time, which wasn't until 2000, [00:02:50] 23 years after I was taught the gender affirming model, that I [00:02:55] really gave myself the freedom to question all of this. And so fast forward now, it's [00:03:00] 2025, and as you said, I this program called ROGD Repair, and [00:03:05] this is.

[00:03:06] Stephanie: Basically the result of having spent the last five years [00:03:10] turning my career on its head to figure out what I, with my [00:03:15] particular background and skills can do to help with this issue because it's harming people. [00:03:20] I, I was so disturbed when I understood the level of harm, [00:03:25] real lasting physical harm, as well as psychological being perpetuated by [00:03:30] my own professional community.

[00:03:31] Stephanie: Um. A wise [00:03:35] person in the gender critical critical community who reached out to me early in my sort of [00:03:40] whistle blowing phase, gave me the advice to focus [00:03:45] essentially on what only I can do. That was how she'd sort of lived her life. Like what can only I [00:03:50] bring to the table? Um, so part of that, as you mentioned, is the [00:03:55] model of the trifecta of social contagion.

[00:03:58] Stephanie: This idea that [00:04:00] gender identity ideology doesn't. Operate in isolation, but in a perfect [00:04:05] storm, along with woke beliefs about social justice and [00:04:10] cluster B personality traits. Now, some people like to misinterpret this to say that I am [00:04:15] diagnosing everyone under the sun who identifies as trans with a cluster B personality disorder.

[00:04:18] Stephanie: No, that's not what I'm doing. [00:04:20]

[00:04:20] Dennison: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:20] Stephanie: Um, but I am saying that even. [00:04:25] Youths with sweet dispositions prior to all this. Once they fall prey to the [00:04:30] social contagion, begin developing some of these personality traits because they go hand in hand [00:04:35] the narcissism and entitlement, the black and white thinking, the histrionic attitude towards [00:04:40] emotions.

[00:04:40] Stephanie: The idea that you can use threats of suicide to manipulate people into getting what you want, the [00:04:45] emotional instability, the lack of perspective taking, um, all of [00:04:50] that. And more. Those are the personality traits that we [00:04:55] typically considered pathological in psychology until very, very recently. And [00:05:00] those traits are being promulgated through social media and through what is being upheld [00:05:05] now as a good, noble, correct, and righteous way to live.

[00:05:08] Stephanie: So it's the cluster be [00:05:10] personality traits, enabling. The incredibly rigid and [00:05:15] radical ideology about social justice and all of this works together with gender identity, [00:05:20] ideology, and together that perfect storm or that trifecta. I [00:05:25] also like to think of it sort of like a mind virus that's been perfectly engineered to [00:05:30] exploit the unique vulnerabilities of these young people.

[00:05:34] Stephanie: [00:05:35] So their grandiosity, their insecurity, their rigidity. They're [00:05:40] insecurities. Um, and so, and that's where it gets in. So [00:05:45] then where does the name ROGD repair come from? Well, it comes from [00:05:50] looking at how you as a parent can plug those holes in your family system because [00:05:55] ultimately you can't change your child.

[00:05:57] Stephanie: Even if you have the benefit of [00:06:00] time on your hands, even if your child is a minor, and let's say you live in a [00:06:05] state that has increasingly good protections for minors, that's great, that's [00:06:10] wonderful, but you cannot rely on the law or any system to protect you [00:06:15] because your kid will be 18 one. Hmm. And you know what?

[00:06:19] Stephanie: Even if there's [00:06:20] better laws in your estate for people over 18, they can move. You know, [00:06:25] ultimately my battle is not the legal battle. I'm grateful there are people fighting that fight. It's not the [00:06:30] fight that I was just designed to fight. So until the people who are busy [00:06:35] fighting, the legal battles win, the rest of us have to figure out what we can [00:06:40] do.

[00:06:41] Stephanie: When it comes to the things we can control, and that's, that's how we're communicating, [00:06:45] that's how we're understanding ourselves and other people's psychology and relationships. So [00:06:50] my program essentially teaches people to plug the holes that you can plug in your [00:06:55] family system. If this is a mind virus that's perfectly engineered to get in through the cracks [00:07:00] that were caused by something like a divorce

[00:07:04] Dennison: mm-hmm.

[00:07:04] Stephanie: In your [00:07:05] family. Or a, a trauma that happened to your child or a sibling [00:07:10] dynamic, you know, whatever those areas are, that's what you can control. That's what you can [00:07:15] affect. It also, yeah, it's about working on yourself. It's about understanding [00:07:20] adolescent psychology as well, and understanding the psychology of the trans cult, if you don't mind my [00:07:25] saying that.

[00:07:25] Stephanie: So that you can approach things in a way that is not likely to backfire. And [00:07:30] so the first stage of my work with a lot of families is just the, uh, [00:07:35] you know, you know, the disaster remediation phase of, [00:07:40] you know, inventorying everything that. You know, they would've done differently. Hindsight [00:07:45] being 2020, I teach people not to make those common mistakes.

[00:07:48] Stephanie: I teach people how to clean up [00:07:50] the mistakes they've already made, and again, how to affect the things that are truly within their power to affect. [00:07:55]

[00:07:55] Dennison: Now, in your trifecta, you have cluster B personalities, and you mentioned some of the traits, the [00:08:00] insecurity, loneliness. Um, can you explain a few more of those traits that generally are there, [00:08:05] but not always?

[00:08:05] Dennison: Of course.

[00:08:07] Stephanie: Sure. So when we talk about cluster B personality [00:08:10] traits, um, the disorders, the cluster B personality disorders are [00:08:15] narcissistic, antisocial, histrionic, and borderline. Um, so [00:08:20] some of those terms are familiar to most people. We all know narcissism, it's mm-hmm. Pretty big in pop [00:08:25] psychology. Um, borderline personality disorder is also something that a lot of people are [00:08:30] talking about.

[00:08:31] Stephanie: Histrionic maybe doesn't get mentioned quite as much in the pop psychology. [00:08:35] I think there's a reason for that, which is that a lot of social media behavior in the very same channels that [00:08:40] love to grab onto pop psychology concepts, a lot of the behavior in those [00:08:45] channels is histrionic. So these grandiose, superficial displays of [00:08:50] emotion and attention seeking and overly sexualized, overly intimate behavior [00:08:55] that's, you know, part of the pattern we associate with histrionic [00:09:00] personality disorder.

[00:09:00] Stephanie: If antisocial has to do with essentially [00:09:05] getting one's thrills out of, um, lying, cheating, and stealing now. It's to [00:09:10] diagnose a personality disorder. That's not what we're doing here. Right. It takes a lot for someone [00:09:15] who's been a, appointed the mental health professional in on, in charge of a certain [00:09:20] situation to diagnose a personality disorder because there has to be a pervasive [00:09:25] pattern mm-hmm.

[00:09:25] Stephanie: Of, uh, interpersonal behavior that's extremely problematic to reach that level. But what [00:09:30] I'm doing here is I'm saying, Hey, the traits of these disorders are part of the trifecta of social [00:09:35] contagion.

[00:09:36] Dennison: Okay.

[00:09:36] Stephanie: But with narcissism we look at the entitlement factor. For [00:09:40] instance, with borderline personality disorder, we're looking at a lack of a sense of self and emptiness [00:09:45] and instability in relationships.

[00:09:46] Stephanie: And you know, whenever we start explaining these traits. [00:09:50] Anyone who has experience dealing with someone who's in the trans cult can look around and see how those traits are [00:09:55] manifesting here.

[00:09:55] Dennison: Gotcha. Now also there's the social justice narrative is, [00:10:00] uh, part of the trifecta. You see that as more, um, uh. [00:10:05] Sort of the advocacy from above.

[00:10:09] Dennison: Is that what it [00:10:10] is? That these people have not been recognized in the past and thank God we're [00:10:15] shining a light on this, this condition that has people have had to suppress for so long [00:10:20] that you're, is that what it is? You're assigned a, uh, uh, a gender at birth, [00:10:25] but it might not be your real. Gender, is that the social you're

[00:10:28] Stephanie: getting at the [00:10:30] narrative component of things.

[00:10:31] Stephanie: Okay. Right. Okay. So, and a lot of these youth, by the way, are extremely [00:10:35] intellectual. You know, they're, they're the gifted, quirky kids. Some of [00:10:40] them are on the autism spectrum. And, uh, they [00:10:45] love to intellectualize and many of them come from very intellectual families. A lot of the people I work with [00:10:50] are brilliant.

[00:10:51] Stephanie: Common misperception about my work, by the way, is, is that you, you know, [00:10:55] need to be educated because you're, you're not that smart or you don't understand psychology, and that's why you come to me. [00:11:00] You know, I work with extremely brilliant people.

[00:11:02] SKOT: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:02] Stephanie: Um, I, I work with people at all [00:11:05] levels intellectually and in terms of their understanding of psychology.

[00:11:08] Stephanie: I've worked with therapists, [00:11:10] um, and doctors. Engineers, but this stuff is really tricky. Mm-hmm. And [00:11:15] that's why we need help with it. Right? So it's sometimes intellectual families, because they're, they're so [00:11:20] intellectual themselves are the ones most likely to get sucked in to these, uh, [00:11:25] you know, logical headbutting battles with their kids and miss some of the [00:11:30] indicators of what's going on underneath the surface emotionally.

[00:11:33] Stephanie: So the social [00:11:35] justice narratives. That's what's empowering [00:11:40] intellectually, some of the bad ideas and the toxic [00:11:45] emotional traits.

[00:11:45] Dennison: Mm-hmm. Gotcha. Okay. And then the third one, gender [00:11:50] identity ideology, which is sort of the new piece I think has been [00:11:55] devised over the last decade and a half or so that, um, [00:12:00] basically.

[00:12:02] Dennison: You're trapped and we've got the way out for you. [00:12:05] We can transition you to the opposite gender. That's essentially what it's about, and there's no kind of [00:12:10] leeway there. Is that correct?

[00:12:12] Stephanie: Yeah. And I mean, this ideology has roots, a century old, [00:12:15] and you know, that's where we have the excellent work of people like Helen Joyce, who've written books like trans, you know, [00:12:20] exposing where this came from.

[00:12:21] Stephanie: But it's so prevalent now. Now it's reached the level that [00:12:25] the narrative is that a. Um, you are assigned a sex at [00:12:30] birth and the doctor has no idea what they're doing when they do that. They're just making a rough [00:12:35] guess based on the thing between your leg legs, but that's actually bigotry for them to judge you based on your [00:12:40] genitalia and, uh, you know, the, the ideology just, just goes from there.

[00:12:43] Stephanie: You don't need to,

[00:12:44] Dennison: [00:12:45] right, right. So it, it's very, I would imagine very difficult for a therapist [00:12:50] to try to speak freely when that. General narrative is taking [00:12:55] place. If you go against that flow of, well, you know, you have [00:13:00] thoughts that you might be the other gender, well quick, we gotta get you into care. And care [00:13:05] means, uh, procedures, uh, medication, um, [00:13:10] bottom surgery potentially.

[00:13:11] Dennison: Um, and seems like when there's, [00:13:15] there's consensus for that. And it's consensus around science we saw with COVID [00:13:20] can be troublesome.

[00:13:23] Stephanie: Well, and that's [00:13:25] why so many therapists, the, the therapist, the exact therapist that you'd most [00:13:30] want your kid to be seeing in this situation, those therapists [00:13:35] are not even working with anyone remotely dealing with this issue [00:13:40] because of the expectations that patients are bringing into therapy and the, you know, [00:13:45] combined with a highly litigious environment.

[00:13:47] Stephanie: And the myths of, uh, regarding [00:13:50] conversion therapy that are being spread, this idea that anyone who's trying to help [00:13:55] young people come into congruence and acceptance with their sex body is [00:14:00] trying to convert them and that this is an abusive and ineffective practice. [00:14:05] Um, so those, those narratives certainly aren't helping.

[00:14:08] Stephanie: It is really hard to find [00:14:10] a good therapist that is willing to address this issue holistically. [00:14:15]

[00:14:15] Dennison: Yeah. Um, so especially when you have DM five, defining gender dysphoria as [00:14:20] psychological distress that arises from a mismatch between the person's experience or [00:14:25] express gender and their sex assigned. Gender at birth diagnosis [00:14:30] helps individuals access the healthcare and treatment necessary.

[00:14:34] Dennison: To [00:14:35] focusing on the distress rather than labeling gender as a disorder, gender di [00:14:40] identity as a disorder. So it sounds like the medical community is all for this. [00:14:45] Like you've gotta get the, the treatments and there's no, uh. [00:14:50] Examination of other possibilities. Is that kind of a thing?

[00:14:53] Stephanie: To be fair, there is, there's definitely [00:14:55] a false manufactured consensus because when you start digging into this issue and talking to [00:15:00] other professionals, you realize that there have been people in every relevant professional sphere who have been [00:15:05] trying to push back on this.

[00:15:06] Stephanie: You know, there, there are people in the community, mental health [00:15:10] professionals, I'm just one, some have bigger presences than mine publicly, and some have, [00:15:15] are, are doing quieter work behind the scenes. Um. In, in the [00:15:20] communities of endocrinologists, you have doctors like William Malone blowing the whistle [00:15:25] and pediatricians.

[00:15:25] Stephanie: You have doctors like Julia Mason blowing the whistle. And, uh, [00:15:30] in our documentary, uh, no Way Back, the Reality of Gender Affirming Care. Julia [00:15:35] Mason explains what happened when, uh, she and other pediatricians tried to [00:15:40] raise this issue. It was one of the most popular issues in the forums. [00:15:45] Demanding a, a review of the literature on the subject, and it [00:15:50] got squelched by the, uh, by the pediatric association.

[00:15:53] Stephanie: I forget. Uh, [00:15:55] A-P-A-A-P-A-A-A-P. Yeah. I get all the organizations mixed up. All the acronyms, [00:16:00] but yeah, I mean, they, they silenced the descent. They actually changed the [00:16:05] process by which doctors are allowed to bring up issues in those forums in order to silence [00:16:10] descent. So it's a manufactured consensus.

[00:16:12] Dennison: Mm-hmm. So it must have political roots [00:16:15] that are pretty powerful too. 'cause the insurance is covering this now. I, I know [00:16:20] when my mother needed a pacemaker, we found her twice on the floor, uh, you [00:16:25] know, barely breathing before they would say, okay, she, the insurance will [00:16:30] cover it, you know, and, and for this, it's like, no problem.

[00:16:33] Dennison: Assurance has got it. [00:16:35] Uh, so there's, there's some kind of power or movement from above, almost [00:16:40] like, um. I don't know. Some of the other movements we've seen Me too, where it doesn't [00:16:45] seem to be as grassroots or BLM, it's much more AstroTurf corporate money. [00:16:50] Um, is this a profitable industry? What's driving this [00:16:55] funding?

[00:16:55] Dennison: And, and

[00:16:55] Stephanie: yeah. I mean, I, when it comes to questions like that, I'm, you know, my stance is [00:17:00] always like I'm just one blind man feeling the elephant. And I can tell you what it feels like from over here, [00:17:05] but I don't know the shape of the whole elephant. There. There are other people who've. Dove much deeper than [00:17:10] I have into that, but it definitely feels like a sinister agenda and there are some very [00:17:15] wealthy and powerful, frankly, narcissistic autogynephilia [00:17:20] males at, you know, trying to run things from a position of power for [00:17:25] sure.

[00:17:25] Stephanie: I, I don't know. I don't know all the details there.

[00:17:29] Dennison: Okay, so [00:17:30] when you do your work, ROGD, repair parents come to you from [00:17:35] all over the country. And all

[00:17:36] Stephanie: over the world actually.

[00:17:38] Dennison: Ah, so how do [00:17:40] they approach you? How do they find you and what's that process like for people?

[00:17:44] Stephanie: Well, [00:17:45] so my career's just kind of snowballed.

[00:17:47] Stephanie: Uh, now I don't, I don't see [00:17:50] any patients anymore right now. Now. Mm-hmm. I, I retain my license as a marriage and family [00:17:55] therapist. Um. Partly if nothing else, just to maintain the [00:18:00] authority that that gives me to say I am an LMFT and I declare that this is wrong until they come and [00:18:05] take my license from me, which they've tried and failed before,

[00:18:07] SKOT: thankfully.

[00:18:08] Stephanie: Um, you know, so, [00:18:10] but I mean, I went from being just a therapist to a therapist and a public [00:18:15] figure to a therapist, a public figure, and a consultant. 'cause I decided to [00:18:20] start just seeing what people wanted to talk to me about. Um, who were approaching me from [00:18:25] different situations. Mm-hmm. And then I, I stopped doing therapy, uh, a little over a year ago [00:18:30] just to focus on this issue given my limited bandwidth.

[00:18:33] Stephanie: Mm-hmm. And. [00:18:35] Now I coach parents from all over the world and pulling back on therapy gave me the [00:18:40] space to not only focus on this issue, but put all the core themes and [00:18:45] lessons that I've learned from doing this work with families into the program, [00:18:50] ROGD repair, which now anyone can sign up. For, so my work is essentially twofold in that regard, where I have [00:18:55] my individual and couples, um, that I do coaching with, and they can find me from anywhere in the [00:19:00] world as long as they speak English.

[00:19:01] Stephanie: So, um, most of my, um, most of my clients are [00:19:05] in the US but I have some in Canada, some in Great Britain and Australia. [00:19:10] Um. Usually they'll just click on [00:19:15] my Calendly link, um, through my bio site on my social [00:19:20] media or through the notes in my show notes on my podcast. Mm-hmm. You must be some kind of therapist.

[00:19:24] Stephanie: Um, [00:19:25] and just a lot of people will book like a free discovery call, which I'm not doing right now 'cause I'm about to go on [00:19:30] vacation. Or they'll just kind of go ahead and pay for a full consultation 'cause they're feeling like desperate to dive [00:19:35] in and they, maybe they've listened to enough on my podcast to know that I'm there for.

[00:19:38] Stephanie: For helping people like them, [00:19:40] um, or they find my course@ogdrepair.com, right? [00:19:45] And, um, and then they, you know, might work with me [00:19:50] one-on-one In addition to that. Um. What was your question? Just how do they find [00:19:55] me?

[00:19:55] Dennison: Yeah, how do they find you, and then where do you go from there? Once they come to you, do you, do they, uh, you [00:20:00] recommend the course, you recommend counseling?

[00:20:02] Dennison: Um,

[00:20:02] Stephanie: I always recommend the course, and honestly, I [00:20:05] need to revise my process because I, I need to make it very clear, like, I don't wanna work with you if you're not [00:20:10] willing to do the course as mm-hmm. If, if this like, 'cause. You're making me repeat myself 'cause I've already said [00:20:15] certain things in the course.

[00:20:15] Stephanie: You can do it on your own time, but, uh, you know, the best combination is to do the course [00:20:20] and, and work with me one-on-one. Um, so yeah, I always recommend the course. And [00:20:25] then in terms of the coaching work I do, it's, [00:20:30] and thank you for inviting me to articulate my process because I actually need to be able to, [00:20:35] um, kind of put this into like a FAQ or something soon.

[00:20:39] Stephanie: Um. [00:20:40] So I, I meet with ideally [00:20:45] mom and dad. Um, so, you know, best case scenario, there's a, [00:20:50] a healthy, strong marriage there. Um, but sometimes. If [00:20:55] they're not married or they're not on the same page about this issue, or they're, um, [00:21:00] maybe one person's a lot more invested in doing something like getting help. [00:21:05] Um, so sometimes I'll meet with one parent or the other.

[00:21:07] Stephanie: I also love it if we can involve other family [00:21:10] members. So sometimes there's a special grandparent that has a really close relationship. [00:21:15] The kid that we're worried about, or an older sibling that, uh, is worried about [00:21:20] them, you know? So if we have other family members who are also concerned, I really like to include them in the [00:21:25] process.

[00:21:25] Stephanie: And, um, the family tells me [00:21:30] about their kid. And over the course of typically. [00:21:35] Several hours together. Um, they paint essentially a picture in my [00:21:40] mind of who this young person is, their personality, what makes them tick. Um, their [00:21:45] psychological defenses, their common reactions to things, their motives, their feelings, their [00:21:50] relationships.

[00:21:50] Stephanie: You know, I, I get this picture in my mind. [00:21:55] And then we look at what the family can affect. 'cause [00:22:00] like I said, um. You know, I say to religious families, God gave your child free [00:22:05] will. Right? Your child has free will. And, uh, in some cases they're [00:22:10] already an adult. In some cases they're already medicalizing by the time the family comes to me.

[00:22:14] Stephanie: [00:22:15] Um, and I will tell them, if it's not the ideal time for an intervention, I'll still [00:22:20] always work with people. Almost always work with people on turning over every stone we can turn over. And I'm approaching [00:22:25] this from a stand of, you know, how do we reduce the total amount of damage that is done to this person in the [00:22:30] course of their lifetime?

[00:22:30] Stephanie: How do we, you know, add years back onto their lives by [00:22:35] I. Playing our cards in such a way that they're likely to, you know, [00:22:40] get off the hormone sooner rather than later. So I do kind of approach things from a harm reduction standpoint. [00:22:45] Um, but you know, I'll let people know if it's like a really dangerous time.

[00:22:49] Stephanie: For example, is like [00:22:50] kid just turned 18 and immediately went on hormones. Now, like two months in, [00:22:55] they're feeling on top of the world. This is a very hard time to intervene. Um, so I'll let people know [00:23:00] what I'm hearing in terms of what's working for them and against them.

[00:23:03] SKOT: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:04] Stephanie: I will [00:23:05] tell them what they're doing wrong, you know, and it's no judgment on you as a person [00:23:10] or you a parent, but it's to say, look, you wanna be effective, here's the nature of the beast you're dealing with.

[00:23:14] Stephanie: Mm-hmm. [00:23:15] And here are the rules of the game for engaging with that beast. Here are the mistakes you made in that game. [00:23:20]

[00:23:20] Dennison: Now in terms of mistakes, are most parents, uh, are they, um, do they hope to [00:23:25] ignore it and it'll go away? Are they That's one author, one that's one. Are they authoritative? You are not [00:23:30] trans.

[00:23:30] Dennison: This is crazy. Snap out of it.

[00:23:32] Stephanie: That can be another.

[00:23:33] Dennison: Um, are they, [00:23:35] um, enablers? Like, okay, if you're trans, we'll, we'll get, let's go. We

[00:23:39] Stephanie: That's a third. [00:23:40] Yeah. Keep going down the list.

[00:23:43] Dennison: Um, [00:23:45] what else do you have? So those were three that came to me.

[00:23:49] Stephanie: Um, [00:23:50] here's one that might surprise you. Uh, trying to show your kid Detransition [00:23:55] videos.

[00:23:56] Stephanie: So a lot of people think detransition are gonna be the way to get through to your kids [00:24:00] about this. And I, I do always say, you know, take my advice with a grain of salt. [00:24:05] Nobody knows your kid better than you. If there's a reason that you think an intervention that I think is ill-advised, [00:24:10] might be effective, I'm all ears.

[00:24:11] Stephanie: And you know, there's, for everything I say, [00:24:15] there's a time that the opposite is probably more advisable. That being said, I have some [00:24:20] general rules of thumb. One of them is don't be overly [00:24:25] hopeful to talking to your kids about detransition or showing them det transits videos is [00:24:30] going to be effective. And I am just reminded of that because it happened again today.

[00:24:34] [00:24:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:35] Stephanie: A family, lovely people, by the way. No shade on them. Great, wonderful people. [00:24:40] But. They had the same naive hope that every parent has that Oh, just learning about [00:24:45] Detransition. And there was an opening with their kid where their kid told them to go learn about Detransition. [00:24:50] So okay, we're thinking, you know, great, we'll take that opening.

[00:24:54] Stephanie: Your [00:24:55] kid said you should go learn about Detransition. So now we're gonna circle back and say. [00:25:00] Wow. I, I, I, you told me to learn about Detransition and I did. And [00:25:05] Wow. I'm so shocked. And you know, so we talked about how to sort of use that to [00:25:10] their advantage. Mm-hmm. But then they really wanted to show their kid Detras videos, and I [00:25:15] explained why we don't do that in the RGD repair approach.

[00:25:19] Stephanie: Um, [00:25:20] but I always say, you know, God gives you free will too. And you know, who's to say, you should listen to me. Maybe I'm [00:25:25] wrong. Right,

[00:25:25] Dennison: right.

[00:25:26] Stephanie: So. Uh, you know, against my advice, [00:25:30] um, they, they did proceed with trying to watch a [00:25:35] detransition video with their child, and here's the reaction they got. Daughter [00:25:40] immediately explained all the reasons that she is different from the girl in the video.

[00:25:44] Dennison: Of [00:25:45] course,

[00:25:45] Stephanie: of course. Right. So, so this is, this is where your kid's gonna meet you logically, [00:25:50] intellectually, rationally with it is, oh, I'm different because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Well, what's [00:25:55] the underlying motivation here? The motivation is I have a [00:26:00] fragile ego. I have latched onto this idea of being trans is something that gives [00:26:05] me comfort and like a shield to, to navigate the world.

[00:26:09] Stephanie: It makes me [00:26:10] feel powerful. And the last thing I wanna do is [00:26:15] identify myself with someone remorseful and ashamed. Who's saying I made a huge [00:26:20] mistake. That is the last thing in the world. A trans identified young P person at [00:26:25] this stage with their ego development,

[00:26:27] SKOT: right,

[00:26:27] Stephanie: is, you know, their, their [00:26:30] motivation going into watching something like that is to get intellectual about [00:26:35] how many ways can I count the differences between myself and this person so I can explain why they're [00:26:40] not like me.

[00:26:41] Stephanie: And you want your kid to see themselves in this person, it's not gonna [00:26:45] happen. So. That's a common mistake.

[00:26:48] Dennison: Got you. So the film no [00:26:50] way back, you wouldn't recommend necessarily?

[00:26:52] Stephanie: No. And I mean, again, everyone's different. You know, [00:26:55] I'll be 10, 20 meetings into a family and we'll go over why specifically [00:27:00] they think that that film might land with their kid because there's an opening or [00:27:05] because of.

[00:27:05] Stephanie: Particular series of events that's happened.

[00:27:08] SKOT: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:08] Stephanie: That's where the sort of [00:27:10] customization comes in. And then in my program, ROGD Repair, which is a self-paced course, you don't [00:27:15] have to hire me as a consultant to do the course. Right. Part of how I have people customize the materials, I'll have a [00:27:20] lesson where I'm giving a talk and there's some written parts, and then there'll be a q and [00:27:25] a for you.

[00:27:26] Stephanie: Reflect on how does this apply to you? So it'll be, you know, if I were to say this [00:27:30] to my child, how would she respond? Um, that's, you know, where I [00:27:35] try to approximate the coaching process by getting people to think about the [00:27:40] specifics of how their child reacts to things.

[00:27:42] Dennison: Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, um, [00:27:45] so interesting hearing you speak about this.

[00:27:47] Dennison: It's really fascinating. What about when the parents [00:27:50] aren't on the same page? You are almost doing marriage counseling before you can do. [00:27:55] This counseling with ROGD repair, that [00:28:00] must be incredibly difficult and I'm so, so the couple as well.

[00:28:02] Stephanie: I'm so clear on my boundaries that [00:28:05] with this coaching work, I'm here to talk to people who are on our side of this [00:28:10] issue.

[00:28:10] Stephanie: Like I'm not here to convert anyone, right? I'm not here to convince you about it. [00:28:15] When you're ready to learn, you know, if you've been affirming and now you're questioning that and you're open to learning, [00:28:20] fine. But it, yeah, if, I mean it depends on when you say they're not on the same page. I don't work with [00:28:25] people where one believes that affirming is the right approach.

[00:28:28] Stephanie: I definitely work [00:28:30] with people where they're both concerned, but they have different ways of thinking that they should go about it. [00:28:35] You know, families where maybe dad is less worried than mom and thinks they should be [00:28:40] more lax and more compromising. So like, here's a common scenario. Um, children [00:28:45] often have conflict with the same sex parent and that same sex parent is their role [00:28:50] model.

[00:28:50] Stephanie: That's probably, you know, if you're a young woman and you're in conflict with your mom, [00:28:55] she looks a lot like you're gonna look as an adult. She has a lot of your same traits. She's the woman who raised you. [00:29:00] So your conflict with your mom as a young woman is a, a [00:29:05] big part of this sort of trans identity.

[00:29:07] Stephanie: And so. There's already, [00:29:10] let's say more scapegoating, triangulation, bad cop dynamic in the mother-daughter [00:29:15] relationship. And mom's the one holding the line saying, we cannot affirm, we [00:29:20] have to keep using she her pronouns. We, you know, we can't endorse this. No, we're [00:29:25] drawing the line at the binder. We're drawing a line at this and that.

[00:29:27] Stephanie: Right? And dad's saying, well, you know, I just think, you know, in [00:29:30] order to preserve the relationship, we can kind of compromise on calling her they, or we can. You know, [00:29:35] we can let her bind like eight hours a day, but not 16. Or, you know, dad might have this [00:29:40] idea, but if they end up triangulated in that rather than acting.[00:29:45]

[00:29:45] Stephanie: As, as a unified team, then that particular triangulation is only [00:29:50] exacerbating the mother-daughter conflict because mom is bad cop and dad is good cop. And you [00:29:55] know, now daughter's unconscious association is mom's no fun. [00:30:00] I wanna identify with my male role model, right? So absolutely we're, you know, we, [00:30:05] there is sort of a like family therapy element to things, although again, I'm very clear this is coaching, I'm [00:30:10] providing educational guidance.

[00:30:12] Stephanie: I'm not diagnosing or treating mental illness.

[00:30:14] Dennison: [00:30:15] Now it seems like, uh, are there more girls than boys transitioning these days? I, [00:30:20] I thought it used to be more girls transitioning, but now I hear there's a rise in boys transitioning.

[00:30:24] Stephanie: [00:30:25] Yeah. Again, like I can only feel my little corner of the [00:30:30] elephant. Mm-hmm.

[00:30:30] Stephanie: But from what it looks like from here, yeah. The narrative [00:30:35] certainly five years ago, whenever like. Irreversible damage came out. Uh, certainly the [00:30:40] narrative and the numbers were showing, you know, this is 80% girls to [00:30:45] 20% boys, and that was part of what was used in the justification for why we're [00:30:50] taking such a critical look at this.

[00:30:51] Stephanie: Because historically, gender dysphoria was prevalent since early [00:30:55] childhood and early childhood, and pri primarily males. [00:31:00] But what we're seeing now. At least again, from my corner of the elephant, a [00:31:05] lot of college age males kind of lagging behind the females following in their footsteps. [00:31:10]

[00:31:10] Dennison: Mm. Now, is porn connected to this at all for

[00:31:13] Stephanie: Absolutely.[00:31:15]

[00:31:15] Dennison: Okay. Um,

[00:31:16] Stephanie: yeah. Where are you going with that?

[00:31:18] Dennison: Well, I've just heard, uh, [00:31:20] porn is so destructive sexually, especially for boys in so many different ways, whether it's [00:31:25] just they don't attach to girls in any way at all. You know, they, or [00:31:30] also the roles are such that, you know, a lot of guys are afraid to look at a girl they [00:31:35] feel attracted to because it could be conceived as harassment.

[00:31:39] Dennison: [00:31:40] And so I, it seems like a lot of the teenage. Boys I work with [00:31:45] or know are kind of just shutting off from dating and [00:31:50] maybe this porn avenue takes them there. I know it can take them to a lot of places. [00:31:55] So

[00:31:55] Stephanie: yeah, it's, it's such a major factor. I, I had a detransition on my [00:32:00] podcast, um, Shane Cole, who has been very open about [00:32:05] his history of addiction to hypnosis porn, and I asked [00:32:10] him.

[00:32:11] Stephanie: What percent of ROGD boys is this relevant to? He said [00:32:15] 99%. And you know, that's what I would guess too, but hearing [00:32:20] that from a male who's been there, done that,

[00:32:22] SKOT: Hmm.

[00:32:23] Stephanie: Um, [00:32:25] it's. I always tell parents who don't know this yet, like this is the [00:32:30] Occam's Razor explanation. You know, this is, especially with a [00:32:35] lot of the behavior in the males that feels really incoherent.[00:32:40]

[00:32:40] Stephanie: You know, the males who have always been very male, typical in their interests and [00:32:45] personality, um, the males who are heterosexual. And [00:32:50] as well some of the sexual flipping that goes on for some of them, because [00:32:55] we have a lot now of these boys where all signs until recently [00:33:00] point to them being straight.

[00:33:01] Stephanie: And now they are trans-identified and [00:33:05] they have a trans-identified boyfriend and they're pretending to be lesbians together. And the [00:33:10] nature of those sexual relationships from all the clues that we can get from an outside perspective [00:33:15] is very much like. It looks like parallel play, kind of mutual masturbation.[00:33:20]

[00:33:20] Stephanie: Um, it doesn't look like a full-blown, passionate, intimate [00:33:25] relationship, but that's how warped these kids have gotten through getting [00:33:30] almost all of their sexual experiences through. Very twisted forms of [00:33:35] pornography and masturbation oftentimes combined with having an online [00:33:40] gaming addiction. So the idea of sort of parallel play each being in their own universe, giving [00:33:45] themselves pleasure, that's kind of all they know of sexuality.

[00:33:49] Stephanie: And then they [00:33:50] end up in these like quasi sexual relationships with other boys who were [00:33:55] also presenting and calling themselves girls and maybe taking estrogen [00:34:00] and. Yeah, they never really get to experience [00:34:05] all the feelings and realities that come with, um, having actual [00:34:10] attraction to girls and, and pursuing that.

[00:34:11] Stephanie: And it's very sad because, oh, these are [00:34:15] their formative experiences, you know?

[00:34:18] Dennison: Stephanie, we have about [00:34:20] a minute and a half left, so I was hoping you could, you know, say anything that we haven't talked about you think [00:34:25] PE parents need to hear. And then again, you can mention how they find your work and your, your [00:34:30] podcast, as I mentioned earlier, some therapists.

[00:34:32] Dennison: Oh, absolutely. Fabulous. [00:34:35]

[00:34:35] Stephanie: Oh, thank you. Well, I mean, this is just gonna be blatant self-promotion, but the, [00:34:40] the number one thing I hear is I wish I'd had these tools sooner. I had a [00:34:45] parent, uh, schedule a free discovery call with me a few weeks ago who asked. She [00:34:50] described how her son in his late twenties was now dating a trans identified [00:34:55] person and all these other changes in his personality.

[00:34:56] Stephanie: And I said, well, are you worried that he's going to [00:35:00] announce he's trans soon? And she says, well, he hasn't. So no. I thought, [00:35:05] Ugh. Like I see the writing on the wall, and you know, it's whenever people aren't in that [00:35:10] place of feeling like it's a dire emergency, they're hesitant to invest in really doing the work and [00:35:15] paying the money for the help.

[00:35:16] Stephanie: But it's really, if you listen to parents [00:35:20] further down this path, they will always tell you, I wished I'd had these tools sooner. So if you think this is a worry for [00:35:25] your kid. By all means pursue it. And I've had a lot of people go through the course and say, this would be great [00:35:30] preventative knowledge. So yeah.

[00:35:31] Stephanie: Blatant self-promotion. But it's true, it's based on [00:35:35] experience and especially because the early phase of working with a, a new couple is usually finding out [00:35:40] all the things that they wish they'd done differently. Right? So you can avoid making those mistakes if you get [00:35:45] on it early enough.

[00:35:47] Dennison: Wow. Thank you so much Stephanie.

[00:35:49] Dennison: Win, [00:35:50] uh, ROGD repair. You have a great course for folks. You're also, are you on Twitter as [00:35:55] well?

[00:35:55] Stephanie: I'm on X at some therapist. My account is currently locked. You can [00:36:00] request to follow me and if I like your bio, I might.

[00:36:03] Dennison: Okay.

[00:36:04] Stephanie: And, um, [00:36:05] we didn't discuss the coupon code specifically for your listeners. We didn't plan for that, but I will give them my coupon [00:36:10] code.

[00:36:10] Stephanie: Um, they can use some therapist 2025 to take half off their first month at RO [00:36:15] gd repair.com.

[00:36:16] Dennison: Fantastic. Stephanie, thank you so much again, and, and [00:36:20] just the work you're doing is so important and brave of you to go this [00:36:25] route and, but I know you're following your heart and your conscience and you wanna help people.

[00:36:28] Dennison: So [00:36:30] thank, thank

[00:36:30] Stephanie: you so much for

[00:36:31] SKOT: having me on, Dennis. It's been a pleasure.

[00:36:33] Dennison: All the best. Take care. [00:36:35]

[00:36:36] Stephanie: Thank you for listening to you Must Be some kind of Therapist [00:36:40] if you enjoyed this episode. Kindly take a moment to rate, review, [00:36:45] share, or comment on. Using your platform of choice. And of course, please [00:36:50] remember, podcasts are not therapy and I'm not your therapist.

[00:36:54] Stephanie: [00:36:55] Special thanks to Joey Rero for this awesome theme song, half Awake [00:37:00] and to Pods by Nick for production. For help navigating the impact of the [00:37:05] gender craze on your family, be sure to check out my program for parents, [00:37:10] ROGD, repair Any resource you heard mentioned on this [00:37:15] show. Plus have. Get in touch with me, can all be found in the notes and links below [00:37:20] rain or shine.

[00:37:22] Stephanie: I hope you'll step outside to breathe the air [00:37:25] today in the words of Max Airman. With all its sham, [00:37:30] drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful [00:37:35] [00:37:40] [00:37:45] [00:37:50] [00:37:55] [00:38:00] [00:38:05] world.