You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist

In this inaugural roundtable discussion, I dive headfirst into one of the most contentious topics at the intersection of faith and science: psychedelics and Christianity. As a relatively new Christian myself, I've been wrestling with what believers should think about these powerful substances—especially after interviewing guests whose lives were transformed by psychedelic experiences, including detransitioners who credit these substances with helping them see through lies they'd built their lives upon.

I've gathered four fascinating voices for this conversation, each bringing unique expertise and perspectives. Louie Locke, a pastor of 26 years from Reno, Nevada, rates himself a one out of ten—firmly opposed to psychedelic use from a Christian perspective. He explains his concerns about entering the "second heaven" or spirit realm through means other than Jesus, warning of spiritual doors that may be opened through such substances.

Cameron English, a science journalist and director of biosciences at the American Council on Science and Health, brings skepticism from both scientific and theological angles, noting the poor quality of research and drawing parallels to problematic harm reduction movements.

Daniel Elliot, an Air Force veteran and counselor who has conducted research on psilocybin and spiritual wellbeing, offers a cautious middle ground as a five, distinguishing between natural substances like psilocybin and synthetic ones like MDMA.

Dr. Liza Lockwood, an emergency medicine physician and medical toxicologist, presents the highest rating at seven, explaining her interest in the therapeutic potential for treating refractory depression while sharing the fascinating history of ergot poisoning from the Salem Witch Trials to the discovery of LSD.

Together we explore the Greek concept of pharmakeia, whether psychedelics might be connected to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, what harm reduction really means in practice, and whether Christians should be involved in psychedelic-assisted therapy settings. This is just the first in a series exploring these questions—questions that don't have easy answers but deserve thoughtful Christian engagement.

Books mentioned:

-Imagine Heaven and Imagine The God of Heaven by John Burke

-The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis

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WHERE TO FIND THE GUESTS

Louie D Locke is the Lead Pastor of Hillside Church in Reno, Nevada, where he has served for 26 years, and also oversees eight churches across Northern Nevada and Eastern California as an Area Pastor. Married to Joni for 36 years with three adult children and eight grandchildren, Louie's life mission is to help people understand and follow God's plan, guiding them toward spiritual wholeness and mature discipleship grounded in biblical integrity. A lifelong learner with passion for history, theology, and thoughtful discussion, he enjoys exploring complex biblical topics and applying Christian principles to everyday life.

- X/Twitter: @scoeyd

- Church website: hillside4.org

Cameron English is a writer, editor and co-host of the Science Facts and Fallacies Podcast. Before joining ACSH, he was managing editor at the Genetic Literacy Project, a nonprofit committed to aiding the public, media, and policymakers by promoting science literacy.

- X/Twitter: @CamJEnglish

- Website: acsh.org (American Council on Science and Health)

- Podcast: Science Facts and Fallacies (with Dr. Liza Lockwood)

Daniel Mark Elliott Jr., LMHCA, is a Protestant psychoanalytic counselor specializing in psychosis, dissociation, and cultural fragmentation. An Air Force veteran, psychedelic researcher, and founded Mad River Counseling. He is currently writing a book titled My Psychosis while developing a framework on how minds form reality, coherence, and meaning in fragmented societies.

- X/Twitter: @Olaf_The_Third

- Website: mad-river.org

Dr. S. Eliza Lockwood is an emergency medicine physician and medical toxicologist who completed her fellowship at NYU in 2006 and went on to establish an ACGME-accredited program at Washington University in St. Louis. Driven by a passion for sustainable global health solutions, she has organized humanitarian relief efforts, founded a global health scholar track, and now serves as Medical Affairs Lead for Bayer, focusing on innovative approaches to malnutrition and disease prevention in developing countries. She lectures nationally and internationally on medical toxicology, tropical medicine, and global health.

- X/Twitter: @DrLizaMD

- LinkedIn: Liza Lockwood
- Podcast: Science Facts and Fallacies (with Cameron English)

- Weekly X Space: Thursdays 4-6 PM Central (with Cam and John Entine) discussing science and faith topics

[00:00:00] Start
[00:00:47] Introduction to Psychedelics and Christianity Roundtable
[00:02:30] Rating Scale Explained: One to Ten
[00:03:25] Louie Locke Introduction: Pastor, Rating One
[00:05:23] Cameron English Introduction: Science Journalist, Rating Two
[00:07:13] Daniel Elliot Introduction: Veteran and Counselor, Rating Five
[00:08:14] Dr. Liza Lockwood Introduction: Toxicologist, Rating Seven
[00:09:16] Why This Topic Matters to Stephanie
[00:11:30] Louie Explains His Opposition to Psychedelics
[00:19:22] Defining Pharmakeia and Biblical Sorcery
[00:25:26] Cam's Journey Through Depression to Faith
[00:38:17] Daniel on Natural vs Synthetic Substances
[00:55:50] Dr. Liza's Scientific Perspective as a Seven
[00:57:22] Salem Witch Trials to LSD: A History
[01:10:32] Mid-Episode Break
[01:19:45] Defining Harm Reduction and Its Failures
[01:35:01] Psychedelics and the Tree of Knowledge
[01:47:30] Brian Johnson's Psilocybin and Transhumanism
[02:01:06] Seeking God in Mistaken Ways
[02:05:20] Final Thoughts from the Panel
[02:12:45] Where to Find the Guests

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Show notes & transcript provided with the help of SwellAI.

Special thanks to Joey Pecoraro for our theme song, “Half Awake,” used with gratitude and permission.

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